diff --git a/index.html b/index.html
index ebcd877..52a415d 100644
--- a/index.html
+++ b/index.html
@@ -374,8 +374,6 @@ th, td { border:none; padding-top:0; padding-bottom:0; border-bottom:thin solid
 </tr>
 </tbody>
 </table>
-<!-- size: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.beancount -->
-<!-- size: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.ledger.hledger -->
 <!-- [compare at openhub](https://www.openhub.net/p/_compare?project_0=Ledger&project_1=hledger&project_2=beancount) -->
 <div class="row">
 
@@ -557,9 +555,9 @@ other console/curses tools
 <h4 id="comparisons">comparisons</h4>
 <ul>
 <li><a href="http://www.matthiaskauer.com/2015/08/command-line-accounting-a-look-at-the-various-ledger-ports/">Matthias Kauer: Command Line Accounting – A look at the various ledger ports</a> 2015</li>
-<li><a href="http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.beancount/227">Another Ledger user's perspective</a> 2015</li>
+<li><a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beancount/QV4qgpFbtJ8/9fSgMw-XGC8J">Another Ledger user's perspective</a> 2015</li>
 <li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dW2vIjaXVJAf9hr7GlZVe3fJOkM-MtlVjvCO1ZpNLmg">Beancount: A Comparison of Beancount and Ledger</a> 2014</li>
-<li><a href="http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.ledger.general/6563">ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client</a> 2014</li>
+<li><a href="https://groups.google.com/d/topic/ledger-cli/__yuMVjrOH0/discussion">ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client</a> 2014</li>
 <li><a href="http://hledger.org/faq.html#hledger-ledger">hledger: hledger &amp; Ledger</a> 2014</li>
 <li><a href="http://massysett.github.io/penny/why-penny.html">Omari Norman: Why Penny</a> 2013</li>
 <li><a href="http://www.mygooglest.com/fni/ledger.html">Fabrice Niessen: Why Ledger?</a> 2010</li>
@@ -621,7 +619,6 @@ other console/curses tools
 <li><a href="https://gist.github.com/simonmichael/9936299">sample chart of accounts for a freelancer</a></li>
 <li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tss0IEzEyAPuKSGeNsfNgb0BfiW2ZHyP5nCFBW1uWlk/view#heading=h.tu0f1kydrpgn">Beancount Cookbook: Account Naming Conventions</a></li>
 <li><a href="https://www.mint.com/mint-categories">Mint: Ways to Categorize Your Spending</a></li>
-<li><a href="http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.ledger.general/7398/focus=7417">account structure</a></li>
 <li><a href="http://money.stackexchange.com/questions/47561/simplified-version-of-double-entry-bookkeeping-for-personal-and-business-finance">Simplified version of double-entry bookkeeping for personal and business finance?</a></li>
 </ul>
 <h4 id="choosing-cash-vs-accrual">choosing cash vs accrual</h4>
@@ -727,7 +724,7 @@ other console/curses tools
 <h4 id="taxes">taxes</h4>
 <ul>
 <li><a href="https://mumble.net/~campbell/2017/08/06/ledger/HOWTO-track-tax">How to use ledger(1) to track US income taxes</a></li>
-<li><a href="http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.beancount/227/focus=237">Another Ledger user's perspective</a></li>
+<li><a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beancount/QV4qgpFbtJ8/9fSgMw-XGC8J">Another Ledger user's perspective</a> 2015</li>
 </ul>
 <h4 id="time-tracking">time tracking</h4>
 <ul>
diff --git a/index.md b/index.md
index 5c7a251..856e22b 100644
--- a/index.md
+++ b/index.md
@@ -263,7 +263,6 @@ sm-Ledger      | 2007  |              | [squeak smalltalk][smalltalk-gh]
 
 [Beancount]: http://furius.ca/beancount
 [beancount-mail]: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/beancount
-<!-- size: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.beancount -->
 [#beancount]: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/#ircs://irc.freenode.net/#beancount
 [beancount-bb]: http://bitbucket.org/blais/beancount/
 
@@ -271,7 +270,6 @@ sm-Ledger      | 2007  |              | [squeak smalltalk][smalltalk-gh]
 
 [hledger]: http://hledger.org
 [hledger-mail]: http://mail.hledger.org/
-<!-- size: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.ledger.hledger -->
 [#hledger]: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/#ircs://irc.freenode.net/#hledger
 [hledger-code]: http://code.hledger.org
 
@@ -558,9 +556,9 @@ Note these often work quite well for other ledger-likes, not just the one they a
 #### comparisons
 
 - [Matthias Kauer: Command Line Accounting – A look at the various ledger ports](http://www.matthiaskauer.com/2015/08/command-line-accounting-a-look-at-the-various-ledger-ports/) 2015
-- [Another Ledger user's perspective](http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.beancount/227) 2015
+- [Another Ledger user's perspective](https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beancount/QV4qgpFbtJ8/9fSgMw-XGC8J) 2015
 - [Beancount: A Comparison of Beancount and Ledger](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dW2vIjaXVJAf9hr7GlZVe3fJOkM-MtlVjvCO1ZpNLmg) 2014
-- [ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client](http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.ledger.general/6563) 2014
+- [ledger vs hledger vs beancount or how to choose the right cli client](https://groups.google.com/d/topic/ledger-cli/__yuMVjrOH0/discussion) 2014
 - [hledger: hledger & Ledger](http://hledger.org/faq.html#hledger-ledger) 2014
 - [Omari Norman: Why Penny](http://massysett.github.io/penny/why-penny.html) 2013
 - [Fabrice Niessen: Why Ledger?](http://www.mygooglest.com/fni/ledger.html) 2010
@@ -633,7 +631,6 @@ Note these often work quite well for other ledger-likes, not just the one they a
 - [sample chart of accounts for a freelancer](https://gist.github.com/simonmichael/9936299)
 - [Beancount Cookbook: Account Naming Conventions](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tss0IEzEyAPuKSGeNsfNgb0BfiW2ZHyP5nCFBW1uWlk/view#heading=h.tu0f1kydrpgn)
 - [Mint: Ways to Categorize Your Spending](https://www.mint.com/mint-categories)
-- [account structure](http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.ledger.general/7398/focus=7417)
 - [Simplified version of double-entry bookkeeping for personal and business finance?](http://money.stackexchange.com/questions/47561/simplified-version-of-double-entry-bookkeeping-for-personal-and-business-finance)
 
 #### choosing cash vs accrual
@@ -740,7 +737,7 @@ Envelope budgeting with automated postings, org & babel:
 #### taxes
 
 - [How to use ledger(1) to track US income taxes](https://mumble.net/~campbell/2017/08/06/ledger/HOWTO-track-tax)
-- [Another Ledger user's perspective](http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.beancount/227/focus=237)
+- [Another Ledger user's perspective](https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beancount/QV4qgpFbtJ8/9fSgMw-XGC8J) 2015
 
 #### time tracking